ошибкав статье словаря общей лексики

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  • Последнее сообщение 17 октября 2007 09:28
megapotz написал 13 октября 2007 02:14

make out - 100% целоваться в засос и никак не заниматься сексом. Это ошибка в словаре общей лексики лингво. Даже цитата там криво переведена
The park was full of lovers making out on the grass. — Парк был набит парочками, которые занимались сексом прямо на траве.
(жесковато, если весь парк занимается сексом

Сортировка: Стандарт | Новые | Голоса
botanic написал 14 октября 2007 04:01

megapotz
make out - 100% целоваться в засос и никак не заниматься сексом. Это ошибка в словаре общей лексики лингво. Даже цитата там криво переведена
The park was full of lovers making out on the grass. — Парк был набит парочками, которые занимались сексом прямо на траве.
(жесковато, если весь парк занимается сексом

Не могу полностью согласиться с вами, коллега, make out это и то, и то.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/make%20out
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
57. make out, a. to write out or complete, as a bill or check.
b. to establish; prove.
c. to decipher; discern.
d. to imply, suggest, or impute: He made me out to be a liar.
e. to manage; succeed: How are you making out in your new job?
f. Slang. to engage in kissing and caressing; neck.
g. Slang. to have sexual intercourse.
h. Chiefly Pennsylvania German. to turn off or extinguish (esp. a light or fire): Make the light out.

The American Heritage dictionary:
make out
1. To discern or see, especially with difficulty: I could barely make out the traffic signs through the rain.
2. To understand: could not make out what she said.
3. To write out; draw up: made out the invoices.
4. To fill in (a form, for example).
5. Informal To represent as being: made me out to be a liar.
6. Informal To try to establish or prove: He made out that he was innocent.
7. To get along in a given way; fare: made out well in business.
8. Slang
To neck; pet.
To have sexual intercourse.

Из Оксфордского учебного словаря:
make out (informal)
1 used to ask if sb managed well or was successful in a particular situation: How did he make out while his wife was away?
2 (NAmE, informal) ~ (with sb) to kiss and touch sb in a sexual way; to have sex with sb

V. (LingvoDa) написал 15 октября 2007 07:22

Как-то никому не приходит в голову простая, незамысловатая истина (в книгах ПРП, в частности, нередко находящая себе место - Павел про это часто пишет):
словари
а) иногда ошибаются,
б) иногда не совсем удачно или корректно отражают реальности узусов,
и, главное: в) по определению (учитывая цикл сбора, систематизации данных, написания словаря и выпуска его в оборот) отражают реалии С ЗАПОЗДАНИЕМ ДО 20 ЛЕТ.
За это время язык уходит далеко.

megapotz совершенно прав.

In American English and English usage, at any rate, making out refers to a very specific, and limited, form of activity. Essentially, lengthy and passionate "heavy kissing", nothing more. It doesn't even involve the rubbing of naughty bits through clothes. (Для сведения интересующихся тематикой - ЭТО - называется "feeling [someone] up"

Вот характерный оборот: "I tried to feel her up while we were making out but she kept moving my hand away."
При making out физический контект несомненно имеет место быть, the two persons' arms are generally wrapped around each other's torsos, so there is certainly the possibility of rubbing each other's backs (and perhaps grabbing onto butts, if they're standing) and running fingers through each other's hair.
Но главный, или, как юристы говорят, "конституирующий признак" (с) :-)) тут в другом: the main focus of making out is lips and tongues. These don't have to be interlocked at all times. If one of the mouths goes wandering down to the other party's neck or ear, for example, making the other mouth emit a sexy moan, this is still in the category of making out. But no lower than the neck. That's already another category of sex-play.






Oh starry-eyed believers in the all-encompassing wisdom of dictionaries,... or any other SINGLE source, for that matter,...

oy-vey...
:-)

*Irisha* (LingvoDa) написал 15 октября 2007 08:27

V, как всегда очень интересно и со знанием дела. Не собираетесь открыть отдельную ветку... ну, что-нибудь типа "Скорая помощь - sex-related terms and definitions"?

botanic написал 16 октября 2007 11:15

Making out понятие многозначное.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_out
In human sexuality, making out is a sexual euphemism[1] of American origin dating back to at least 1949.[2] It covers a wide range of sexual behaviors,[3] and ***means different things to different age groups in different parts of the U.S.[1]*** It typically involves kissing,[4] including prolonged, passionate kissing (also known as French kissing), intimate contact, including heavy petting-that is, skin-to-skin contact,[1] or other forms of foreplay, ***even up to and in some usages including sexual intercourse.[5]*** Making out is usually considered an expression of affection or sexual attraction to a current or prospective sexual partner.[citation needed] An episode of making out is frequently referred to as a make-out session.

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0003-1283(196605)41%3A2%3C96%3A%22OARU%3E2.0.CO%3B2-5
"Make out" and related usages
Albert F Moe
Oakland, California
Among high school and college kids, making out can mean anything from holding hands to going the whole route

botanic написал 16 октября 2007 02:18

botanic
Making out понятие многозначное.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_out
In human sexuality, making out is a sexual euphemism[1] of American origin dating back to at least 1949.[2] It covers a wide range of sexual behaviors,[3] and ***means different things to different age groups in different parts of the U.S.[1]*** It typically involves kissing,[4] including prolonged, passionate kissing (also known as French kissing), intimate contact, including heavy petting-that is, skin-to-skin contact,[1] or other forms of foreplay, ***even up to and in some usages including sexual intercourse.[5]*** Making out is usually considered an expression of affection or sexual attraction to a current or prospective sexual partner.[citation needed] An episode of making out is frequently referred to as a make-out session.

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0003-1283(196605)41%3A2%3C96%3A%22OARU%3E2.0.CO%3B2-5
"Make out" and related usages
Albert F Moe
Oakland, California
Among high school and college kids, making out can mean anything from holding hands to going the whole route


Хотелось бы отметить один момент: если говорить об узусе, то среди носителей языка не существует единого мнения. Многие действительно считают, что making out это лишь поцелуи и объятья. Но есть и те, которые считают, что making out означает многое, в том числе и sexual intercourse.

http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/296143
Assuming "make-out" means "have sex", and making-out is formoney, then this falls withgin the definition of prostitution. You know the story, the woman would go to bed with the man for 1 million dollars, but when asked if she would do it for $2 she refuses saying "What do you think I am?" His response; "We've already established what you are, we're only haggling over the price."

http://ask.metafilter.com/14063/
Making out on a first date? Well, 'making-out' covers a lot of territory, and while it's been a long time since I cleared waivers in the singles league, I'm pretty sure I'd have thought you were at least considering getting naked sometime relatively soon, maybe even that night, so that goes in the 'leading-on' category, and you need to make your position clear.
posted by mojohand at 12:05 PM on January 16

That's where you're going to get into trouble. A kiss is pretty straight-forward. "Making out" can mean a lot of different things to different people. Also, a kiss has a (relatively) straight-forward beginning, middle and end. The only real finale to "making out" is sex.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:50 PM on January 16

Таким образом, подводя некоторые итоги можно сказать, что словари правильно отразили практический узус make out/making out.
Slang. to engage in kissing and caressing; neck.
Slang. to have sexual intercourse.

Источник, как видим вовсе не "SINGLE".

guest1 написал 17 октября 2007 02:23

Книга "Make out and related usages" - 1966 года. Obsolete. And even if it were not, its evidence is neither clear nor conclusive. Могу подтвердить: современная US молодежь все же использует make out в значении "целоваться".

botanic написал 17 октября 2007 09:28

guest1
Книга "Make out and related usages" - 1966 года. Obsolete. And even if it were not, its evidence is neither clear nor conclusive. Могу подтвердить: современная US молодежь все же использует make out в значении "целоваться".

Использует, но не вся, это во-первых. Во-вторых, примеры (я привел далеко не все), которые я привел в сообщении от 14.18. являются современным употреблением, а не узусом семидесятых. Еще раз повторю: да, для очень многих людей make out это именно то, что вы говорите. Для многих, но не для всех.

Что касается словарей, то есть среди них и электронные (в печатном виде их нет), которые были созданы совсем недавно. В них также указаны оба оттенка обсуждаемого здесь значения make out. Вот один из примеров:

http://www.rhymezone.com/r/rhyme.cgi?Word=make+out&typeofrhyme=def&org1=syl&org2=l

Definitions of make out:
verb: comprehend
Example: "I cannot make out what this politician is saying"
verb: try to establish
verb: imply or suggest
verb: kiss, embrace, or fondle with sexual passion
verb: come to terms or deal successfully with
verb: proceed or get along
verb: make out and issue
verb: have sexual intercourse with
verb: write all the required information onto a form

Что касается The American Heritage dictionary 3-е издание вышло в 1992 г., 4-е в 2000 г. И в него вошли слова и значения слов, которые вообще появились только в девяностые годы 20 века.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/virtual
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spam

А вот как проводят исследование узуса:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/impact
Usage Note: The use of impact as a verb meaning "to have an effect" often has a big impact on readers. In our 2001 survey, 85 percent of the Usage Panel disapproved of the construction to impact on, as in the sentence These policies are impacting on our ability to achieve success; fully 80 percent disapproved of the use of impact as a transitive verb in the sentence The court ruling will impact the education of minority students. · It is unclear why this usage provokes such a strong response, but it cannot be because of novelty. Impact has been used as a verb since 1601, when it meant "to fix or pack in," and its modern, figurative use dates from 1935. It may be that its frequent appearance in the jargon-riddled remarks of politicians, military officials, and financial analysts continues to make people suspicious. Nevertheless, the verbal use of impact has become so common in the working language of corporations and institutions that many speakers have begun to regard it as standard. It seems likely, then, that the verb will eventually become as unobjectionable as contact is now, since it will no longer betray any particular pretentiousness on the part of those who use it. See Usage Note at contact.

Не думаю, что The American Heritage dictionary можно назвать источником опаздывающим на 20 лет.

Что касается Wikipedia, где указано что making out "means different things to different age groups in different parts of the U.S.[1]*** It typically involves kissing,[4] including prolonged, passionate kissing (also known as French kissing), intimate contact, including heavy petting-that is, skin-to-skin contact,[1] or other forms of foreplay, ***even up to and in some usages including sexual intercourse" не уверен, что это источник 1966 г.

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